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CaldwellGenealogy.com Discussion Forum

Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
By:Tom Caldwell
Date: 02:42 2/26/02
In Response To: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins (David Caldwell)

: IMHO: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins

: This article will answer the question why I believe the
: Scottish surname Caldwell more likely derived from the
: Old English/Anglo-Saxon words, caeld weille, or caelde
: waellen, meaning cold water welling from a fissure in
: the earth, i.e., artesian well, than from the many
: alternative explanations.
David - you are doing well.
I agree that the body of evidence supports the simple caeld weille and until a better proof is found that it must be.
Unfortunately I was born in Kilmarnock Ayrshire and not in the sanctum sanctorum of Renfrew about 15 miles north.
I have thought out that perhaps the English and Scots Caldwell's are in fact different families. There is no doubt that the migrating ones were principally Scots or Scots/Irish. I have come across familes descended from English roots but they appear much thinner on the ground.
It is interesting to note that the first Normanising King of Scotland who lived to maturity on his English Estates of the Honour of Huntingdon which just happens to be the midlands of England the seeming root source of the English Caldwell family. When he first came to Scotland he ruled the recently incorporated Strathclyde portion as "Comes" whilst his elder brother ruled the Northern portion as "King". When the elder brother died David became King of all Scotland.
The term "Comes" (or Count) is interesting as it is apparently a relict of Roman times and meant "military ruler of a frontier (or recently conquered) state". If this is so perhaps there was still some trouble with the original people of Strathclyde who were probably of as an equally stubborn and independent disposition as their descendent Presbyterians were to become. :)
Davis introduced the fuedal Norman system and knights from down south. It is believed that some Caldwell's came with them - most probably with the FitzAllan's or de Morville's (or both).
The Honour of Huntingdon came and went through Scots Royal hands overthe centuries and it is not improbable that the Caldwell's may even have gone the other way ie: from Scotland to England.
In Scotland Caldwell is sometime pronounced and spelled Carwall. I note that there are a good number of names stating with "Car" and there are a good number of names ending in "well".
Although there is ample evidence that well's were venerated in the English Midlands I have not yet seen any evidence that this held true in Scotland (but I don't hold to be an expert on this matter).
I believe that "Car" is the Scots version of "Caer" in Wales meaning fortified place. We'el I believe means pool and there the matter might rest except for some other circumstances.
Caldwell used to be often spelled Caldwalls and the "Walls" part is getting pretty close to "Wallace" which is generally accepted as being Wallys - "Welsh" or the original British inhabitants.
Evidence to support the fact that the Caldwell's were named after an iron-age British fortress car-wallys or caer-wall is that the local eminence is known as Wall's Hill and sports an Iron Age Vitrified Fort. Furthermore the neighbouring farms are called Castlewalls and I have seen an old map that names the Hall of Little Caldwell as "Castle Wallace". The Mure connection - commonly thought to be a mis-spelling of the more common More or Moore. In French Mur means enclosing walls and Mure means "walled".
The Mure family inherited the property of Caldwell at a very early date and have always been described as "kinsmen" of the Caldwell's. Perhaps it was closer than thought and it was merely differencing the adoption of a Norman or an Anglo-Saxon name.
Caldwell is not a hamlet - it is a family estate - now a psychiatric Hospital. The nearest hamlet/village is Lugton. It hasn't been in the Caldwell family for at least 700 years.
How Carwalls became Caldwell taxes my ingenuity and I will have to pass. Any native of the area where Caldwell's originate will testify that country folk will pronounce Caldwell as "Ker-wahl" and spell it Carwall. My family thinks it a nickname and the Caldwell's "always" pronounce it the way it is writ.
Keep up the good work and I will defend with my life your right to voice your most valuable opinions (which are "righter" than mine :).

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Messages In This Thread

Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
David Caldwell -- 15:15 2/24/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
John Caldwell -- 21:18 2/24/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
Tom Caldwell -- 02:59 2/26/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
John Caldwell -- 09:55 2/26/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
David Caldwell -- 21:21 2/26/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
John Caldwell -- 11:42 2/27/02
Back Up for John
Dean Jackson -- 19:49 3/2/02
Re: Back Up for John
Tom Caldwell -- 23:47 3/2/02
Re: Back Up for John
John Caldwell -- 09:27 3/3/02
Disputing Anglo-Saxon Origin
Dean Jackson -- 22:44 3/3/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
Tom Caldwell -- 23:45 3/2/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
Tom Caldwell -- 03:59 2/28/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
John Caldwell -- 09:37 2/28/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
David Caldwell -- 17:01 2/28/02
Caldwell and John Wycliffe Bible
David Caldwell -- 17:18 2/28/02
Re: Oops -- I Take it back
David Caldwell -- 15:11 3/6/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
Tom Caldwell -- 03:52 2/28/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
Tom Caldwell -- 02:42 2/26/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
Tom Caldwell -- 04:46 2/26/02
Re: Caldwell Anglo-Saxon Origins
Douglas Caldwell -- 07:31 3/16/02
 

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