: Tom writes: "William Caldwell was Chancellor
: 1350-52."

: This is interesting. It signifies the likelihood that
: William survived the Plague. Tom, what is the
: reference or source for this information as to the
: dates during which William Caldwell served as
: chancellor? Is it the Exchequer Rolls?

My information has come courtesy of the Late Mrs Lesley Ann Gordon who was an assiduous researcher of Caldwell history:
"William Caldwell of that Ilk Prebend of Glasgow 1342 Entry of fee (Excheeq Rolls) Chancellor of Scotland 1350-52"

: "Both families [Brsibanes and Caldwells] are reputed
: to have come to Scotland in the train of the
: FitzAllans. They occupied areas close to each
: other."

: Tom, is there anyway you can provide a sketch or map
: showing the location of the occupied areas? Also, a
: reference to the historical document would be helpful.
: The phrase, "reputed to have come" leaves me
: unconvinced.

I agree on your sentiments "reputed to have come" occurs in many families - no one seems to know for sure. If the family acquired property from the patronage of the FitzAllan family it seems that they have automatically have been thought to have come to Scotland "in their train". I imagine that local chiefs of lairds who hitched their star to the FiztAllans could also be candidates. In the very early days of surnames few had the naming continuity to clearly demark a lineage. Consequently it is going to be very hard to trace the line of anyone who cannot latch on to one of the documented major families.

: "A Sir Adam Mure granted land to a Thomas Caldwell
: of
: Todriggs at Kempisland in 1496 this was held until
: 1610 and eventually passed to the Brisbanes."

: Tom, is there anyway you can provide a sketch or map
: showing the location of the occupied areas?
: Also, a reference to the historical document would be
: helpful.

I cannot find Kempisland, but I have a copy of the charter published in the Caldwell (Mure family) Papers by Maitland Club in the 19th century. Kempisland has ben described as being located in the upper reacheer of the Gogo Water at Largs. I know where Togriggs is and an post a copy of a map once I find out how to put an image up on this site.

If we can get David Caldwell of Manitoba going again he can probably give us all many anecdotes of that area - an rea which he would know very well.

: "The Brisbane's the Mure's and the Caldwell's were
: obviously moving in the orbit of the Stewart family in
: the mid-1300's - two Chancellor's and a Chamberlain.
: It seems logical that this had been going on for at
: least 200 years at the time (since the FitzAllan's
: first presence in Scotland) and here is evidence of
: business ties (if not loyalty or kin) going through to
: at least the mid-1600's. This is a period of 500 years.
: One would think that something would show up."

: Houston, we have a problem. What is the text or
: historical document that might shed light on
: clarifying this relationship? I imagine that Tom has
: looked at a lot of documents that were unrevealing.
: Perhaps only a trip to Scotland can unravel the
: mystery. Does anyone have a suggestion?

The Brisbane iformation came from www.users.bigpand.com/cheralyn/page7.html
"The Brisbane's of Bishoptoun"
The Mure informtion came form a Mure site somewhere but I cannot put my hands on the reference just at the moment.
Now that you mentioned "Houston" it is only fair to mention that this is yet another Scots surname that come from the heart of Renfrew.

: "The thrill of the chase is good but the frustations
: are almost as great."

: Tom, you are doing wonderful work so please do not give
: in to the frustrations. I download much of what you
: report, although I have not responded much to what you
: post. Like many of us who are descendants of people
: from Scotland, I have a strong interest in Caldwell
: kinfolk, although my ancestors were from the lowlands,
: not the highlands. I am White Anglo-Saxon Protestant,
: so I cannot say my interest in genealogy reflects
: Celtic nuture or nature. Reading about the Caldwells
: entertains me.

The Caldwell's were lowlanders - period.
I have been looking at the Fullarton family an the location of their interests largely matches the location of the Caldwell farms on the southern bank of the Irvine. They also held land at Dreghorn. the grant of land at Gaylis in 1391 by the Scots king to a Caldwell also involved a Fullarton. The Fullarton's were obviously close to the Stewarts and the Caldwell's to the Fullarton's and they all lived very close to the Royal Castle a Dundonald.

That probably as close as we ever made it to royalty - probably could smell the royal kitchens as it wafted over the fields.